Sky News Newsday interview with Tom Connell

Subjects: Return of uni students to campuses; return of international students to Australia; child care subsidy.

TOM CONNELL:

Well, many higher education, I should say, students across Australia are still not returning to a normal learning environment; they are slowly trickling back into classrooms. The Federal Minister is urging for that to ramp up, and Alan Tudge joins me now. Thanks very much for your time. You’ve been calling for this several times of late. It’s worth noting the students are beginning to return. Some timelines have been mapped out. Is progress happening as you’d like it to?

ALAN TUDGE:

I’d like to see progress happening faster, Tom. I get told by university leaders that the campuses are back open and students are back, and I think by and large that’s the case. But at the same time, almost every day I hear stories from students who say they’re only doing one contact hour a week or no contact hours at all. Now, in my mind, that’s not good enough. We do want students to have the full, rich university experience, and that means the proper contact hours in a COVID-safe manner, certainly for the tutorials, but increasingly for the lectures as well. I mean, if we can have 50,000+ people at the MCG, then I think we we ought to be able to have reasonable lecture theatres and tutorials going ahead.

TOM CONNELL:

Is that a fair analogy? We’ve learnt so much about COVID of late in particular that outdoors are just so much safer than indoors. Could we have outdoor lectures? Is that what you’re saying?

ALAN TUDGE:

No, I’m not saying that, but we have theatres open in Sydney for example. We’ve got many other things which are going ahead, and I just think that we can do more to have students back on campus. At the end of the day, Australian students are the number one priorities of our universities, and last year, Australian students didn’t get the best of experiences, and the student experience survey results show that. I want to see the universities prioritise Aussie students. Ultimately, that’s what universities were set up for and provide them with the best possible learning experience, and in many cases that means face-to-face learning. Sometimes you can do great learning experiences online as well, don’t get me wrong. But some of those tutorials are better off done in person, and I’m just hearing too many stories, Tom, where those tutes aren’t fully back yet, or other classes which could be done in person aren’t being done yet, and I just think that we can do better on that front.

TOM CONNELL:

Alright, so that’s your exhortation towards universities. They’re saying to you, give us a timeline on international students. The Budget sets out a forecast for the return, I think essentially to begin en masse at the end of the year. Can you tell us what you’re aiming for? Is it full return of international students first semester next year?

ALAN TUDGE:

Well, first up, these two things are linked as well. We’ve always said that in order for us to approve any plans for international students, we first need to ensure that Aussie students are back fully on campus. And so these things are related. And we certainly want to see Australians having their proper university experience in a COVID-safe manner. Don't get me wrong, has to be in a COVID-safe manner. Now, in terms of international students, we certainly want to see those international students back. And there's good plans being developed by New South Wales, by Victoria, by South Australia, and we're working through those. Now, my expectations, Tom, is that we'll have some smaller scale pilots later this year. And then we've obviously made an assumption in the Budget that we'll have larger scale numbers in the second half of next calendar year. But we're just taking one step at a time there.

TOM CONNELL:

Reading between the lines then, it doesn't sound like you're hopeful. Every international student that wants to be here and studying by first semester next year, is that a possibility or not?

ALAN TUDGE:

I just don't know, Tom. It's a very large number. There's about 150,000 students who are still studying offshore in an online capacity that would like to come to Australia to complete their studies or to continue their studies. Can we get to those sort of numbers in the first half of next year? I don't know. We've made the assumption in the Budget that that's more likely to happen in the second half of next year, Tom. But our main focus at the moment is working with those states and territories and the universities themselves, to see if we can get some of those smaller scale pilots up and running later this year. Let's make sure that they can be done safely. Once the vaccine is rolled out more broadly across Australia, we may be in a different position. But let's assess that when we get to it.

TOM CONNELL:

Right. And you have noted before, including on this program, that the sector’s weathered this pretty well, and that's true now. But they're doing a lot of work on to the impact of this, that it's going to impact the sector for five to 10 years and 2023 could be the low point in terms of the financial impact. Are you ready to help again, the third biggest export industry in Australia?

ALAN TUDGE:

Well, we've already provided some very substantial assistance, as you know, Tom. We gave an extra billion dollars in research funding just last October, plus an extra half a billion dollars in additional Australian places in our universities. And that's made a difference. And I do note that most universities are still reporting surpluses. In fact, Monash University, Australia's largest university, reported the biggest surplus that they've ever had for 2020. So we keep an eye on it. We know that international student number enrolments are down, but they’re only down by about 13 per cent at this stage. But let's keep a close eye on that and deal with those challenges as or if they do arise.

TOM CONNELL:

Right. But you'd expect that to fall dramatically, particularly if we have Canada, US, UK and so on, open up to onshore learning, and we're giving online. They can't be compared, can they?

ALAN TUDGE:

Well, I just look at what the data says. And the data says right now that international student numbers in total are down only 13 per cent for the universities. Now, the commencements figures, i.e., those students starting for the first time, is down considerably more than that, and I acknowledge that. But I just want to keep it in perspective: 13 per cent down. International students make up about 25 per cent of overall university revenue. And we've boosted the revenue on the other side of the ledger, i.e., through that additional research funds and more Australian student places.

TOM CONNELL:

So, but 13 per cent down, what's the Budget forecast going to be down next year in 2023 as well?

ALAN TUDGE:

We don't have a figure for that, and we'll have to wait until the figures come through. You start to get some early indications based on what Visa applications are put in, but we don't have those figures just yet. I just will say while noting the overall numbers are down, the commencements are down further, and particularly for Indian students, actually – less so for the Chinese students. And we do keep a close eye on those figures.

TOM CONNELL:

Okay. We’ll perhaps seek an update next time. Can I just ask you finally around child care as well? So changes come into place the middle of next year. Why not have the changes in place earlier and have the money paid out at the end of the financial year? If the problem’s the system, you could start the money flowing earlier if you wanted, couldn't you?

ALAN TUDGE:

It's a good question, Tom. I mean, overall, if we can get all of the technology built and the communications done earlier, we will in order to enable those child care subsidies to hit parents earlier on. I think what you're proposing is that people would still pay the higher rates and then potentially get a rebate down the track, should that be the case. We've considered that, but I think the better solution is that if we can get the system built faster, so that then when parents front up…

TOM CONNELL:

But it’s better for parents. They’d rather there be a cheque at the end of the financial year, I’m sure, Minister. So that is, you just confirmed that that is possible, and you considered that, but you've decided not to go ahead with the money starting to flow in from the middle of this year.

ALAN TUDGE:

Well, we've made the budget decision that, at the moment what we've announced is that it will start in 1 July 2022, so that everything can start at once, the subsidies can be put in place, tech can be built, and it'll be seamless when a parent arrives at the child care centre on that day to pay the lower fee. However, if we can get it done more quickly, we will. And we're working towards that.

TOM CONNELL:

A lot of parents will be hoping so. Alan Tudge, Federal Education Minister, thanks for your time today.

ALAN TUDGE:

Thanks very much, Tom.