Sky News Live interview with Peta Credlin
Subjects: Freedom of Speech in Universities, Monash University’s Building Better Schools Guide, COVID-19 outbreak in Victoria
PETA CREDLIN:
Alan Tudge joins me now from Canberra. Minister, we've been talking about this for some time. I know you're passionate about it. How long are you going to give these recalcitrant universities to clean up their act and protect free speech?
ALAN TUDGE:
Well, I want those remaining, it’s actually eight universities – who haven't adopted this French model code. I want them to enact it immediately. And if they don't do it over the next few months, then we will be implementing it. Now, what this code is, it was developed by the former Chief Justice of the High Court, Robert French. He's now Chancellor of a university. It outlines principles in relation to free speech. All universities have agreed to it, and I simply want it enacted. And I've said to them today at our Universities Australia conference that if they don't enact it or if they're unable to, they can't, then we will legislate later this year in order to do so.
Because it's the key principle which underpins what our universities are about, Peta, as you know, because if you can't have freedom of expression, how do you pursue knowledge creation? If you can't have freedom of academic enquiry, how can you possibly seek full truth, which is what universities are supposed to be about.
PETA CREDLIN:
Are they slack or are they obstinate?
ALAN TUDGE:
I think that all of them have agreed that they will adopt this code. For some of them, they're providing reasons such as they need to go through their internal processes, which are just taking time. But frankly, I've lost patience because this has been a two-and-a-half-year journey now, Peta. And for those who adopted the code early on, they've said to me, listen, it took a bit of work, but the sky didn't fall in and now we've got this code of practice, which is very clear to all academics, all students on the campus, which protects free speech and freedom of academic enquiry. So, as I said, I've lost patience. I want to see it done. It's such an important value which underpins the very essence of a university. And if they don't, we’ll legislate it later this year.
PETA CREDLIN:
So yeah, just on this point, I mean, you've got an election looming, what's the deadline for them to do, as you say, to adopt these French recommendations? And you've obviously got to get legislation through the parliament, what's the deadline here?
ALAN TUDGE:
Well, each university is in a slightly different position. So, over the next few weeks we’ll again be speaking to those last remaining eight and understanding exactly where they're at. I haven't set them yet a hard and fast, absolute deadline, but we absolutely want to get this done and dusted this year, Peta. And it's been too long. It's the core principle. And we will legislate if they're not doing it.
PETA CREDLIN:
Alright. I want to go to another issue that's blown up right around the country today, this report from Monash University, it’s a book actually, academics writing for schools and teachers, saying that teachers should be ordered not to use the phrase ‘boys and girls’ and instead teach students about so-called super diversity. It's called The Building Better Schools Guide and as I said, academics at Monash University have published it. It also instructs educators to replace the term English as a second language, which is a statement of fact, with this line of ‘emergent bilingual’. Now, you can't make this stuff up, Alan Tudge. But it's coming out, of course, from Monash University so it has a brand. I think there'll be schools out there that thinks oh, it's pretty important that I implement all of these dictates. Again, what can be done about this stuff?
ALAN TUDGE:
Well, Peta, I don't think this has been implemented in any schools yet, and I hope it isn't implemented in any schools in the future. And frankly, it's so disappointing that we've got another example of this woke rubbish which is being developed by some of our academics in our education faculties. And it's frustrating because our school standards have declined over the last 20 years and we need to be focussed on that. How do we, again, lift our school standards back up to where they were 20 years ago as the starting position? let alone trying to get them up towards some of the leading countries in the world like Singapore, which are now three years above us in terms of their learning standards by the time kids are aged 15 years of age. So that's where I want the focus to be. I want people to disregard this woke rubbish. I think normal parents, to be honest, Peta, they call their kids ‘boys and girls’ and I hope they do for ever more and they shouldn't be paying attention to this sort of garbage.
PETA CREDLIN:
I know we all say that, but unless someone takes a stand, this stuff is insidious, it creeps in everywhere and it suddenly becomes fact and then no one wants to root it out. Before we go, I've got to ask you, you’re a Victorian, why don't we have a Royal Commission into this COVID crisis? All the money was spent. We've got a lot right, there's a lot we haven't got right. Surely, we've got to do an inquiry and learn from what's happened.
ALAN TUDGE:
I think we do need to learn from what has happened, but we're still not out of the woods yet, Peta, and we've got very serious issues on our hands, particularly in Victoria in our fourth lockdown unfortunately, which is just causing so much devastation. And let's just get through this. Let's get through COVID as much as we can and then look at those lessons.
PETA CREDLIN:
Will you support one Alan Tudge, though? Will you support a Royal Commission? If you say not right now, will you support one though?
ALAN TUDGE:
I certainly believe that we need to learn the lessons of what has happened, the mistakes that have been made, the good things that have been made. So that we don’t…
PETA CREDLIN:
But I'm going to be tough on you, Alan. Alan Tudge, I’m going to be tough on you.
ALAN TUDGE:
So that we don’t repeat the same mistakes again. I hear what you’re saying, Peta.
PETA CREDLIN:
Royal Commission, full powers, subpoena documents, call witnesses.
ALAN TUDGE:
Yeah. I hear you. And I'm saying very clearly that we must have some sort of understanding of what went wrong and what's gone well, so that we can learn the lessons for future pandemics, which inevitably will come in, in decades’ time. How that manifests itself, I don't want to say at this stage. Our focus is trying to get through the pandemic at the moment rather than necessarily focus right on that right now.
PETA CREDLIN:
Okay, this will not be the last time I come at you with that question, I'm going to keep it up and drive you nuts. Alan Tudge, thank you for your time.
ALAN TUDGE:
I fully expect you to do so, Peta, thank you.