Sky News Live - interview with Chris Kenny

Subjects: Recent COVID-19 outbreak in NSW; appointment of Mark Vaile as University of Newcastle’s Chancellor and Draft National Curriculum

CHRIS KENNY:

I want to get now to some worrying issues that are popping up in education where freedom of speech is under threat. The latest controversy has arisen at the University of Newcastle, where former Nationals leader and former deputy prime minister Mark Vaile was to be appointed Chancellor, but he was subjected to a vicious campaign by activists and academics objecting to his appointment because he chairs a coal company. Vaile gave in, and he's withdrawn from this prestigious job. This sort of bullying, though, by the sanctimonious left is a real worry. And I raised it with Federal Education Minister Alan Tudge when I spoke to him late this afternoon, but I started by asking him about the Sydney COVID-19 cluster and whether the New South Wales Government is culpable because a driver faring international air crews into and out of quarantine apparently was not vaccinated and not required even to wear a mask.

ALAN TUDGE:

Yeah, I don't know what's happened there, and I'm sure there will be an investigation as to what occurred, but it doesn't sound like good practice. And if that is what has led to further coronavirus infections, then that's not great. I hope that the Berejiklian Government can get control of the disease in Sydney, as she's done so in the past, without having to revert to those strict lockdowns that I've experienced in Victoria.

CHRIS KENNY:

When we talk about strict lockdowns, and we've got state borders being thrown up again now, at what stage do we actually accept that we're going to have some infections in this country? At the moment, there's no one in intensive care in Australia. We haven't had a death from a community infection in this country all year. We've got most of the vulnerable and the elderly who wanted vaccinated. Why can't we actually accept a level of transmission of this virus in the community?

ALAN TUDGE:

Well, I think the Berejiklian Government has got the model right, which doesn't panic when there's a small number of infections in the community but just announces them, does the contact tracing, understands where it is, and puts in place precautionary measures in order to get control of it once more. We certainly don't, Chris, want it running out of control because then it can quickly escalate and you end up with thousands upon thousands of people with the disease and then you may well end up with hospitals full and people dying as a result. We've done so well so far. I think the Berejiklian Government, though, has been the model in terms of those restrictions. And personally, as a Victorian, I’d like to see that similar model enacted in my home state.

CHRIS KENNY:

Well, let's get to your education portfolio now, and you've been outspoken about the need for academic freedom, for freedom of speech in our university sector, yet it transpires that Mark Vaile, the former Deputy Prime Minister of this country, has essentially been pressured into resigning, withdrawing from becoming the Chancellor of the University of Newcastle because so many people protested about the fact that he Chairs a coal mining company. Never mind the fact that he's involved in another company supporting renewable energy. Has the university here just caved in to undemocratic, intolerant pressure?

ALAN TUDGE:

I'll give credit to the university, but the Vice Chancellor and the Council, they actually unanimously supported the appointment of Mark Vaile. I think Mark Vaile stood down purely because of the aggressive activism which was occurring, including from academics within Newcastle Uni themselves. And I just find this deeply disturbing, how this has evolved. And it's particularly disturbing, and in some respects, absurd, because it was occurring in Newcastle, which has been a town built on resources and has the largest coal port in the world. So many jobs depend on that industry. And, you know, the most concerning thing is where does this end, and what's going to be next if it doesn’t stop. They’re the real issues which I think arise out of this, as much as it is that Newcastle University loses the potential of having a great person to be their Chancellor.

CHRIS KENNY:

The City of Newcastle would not be there if not for coal. The university would not be there if not for coal. In fact, it's a thriving community still, because of the coal industry in that area. It does seem absurd. You're a bit disappointed, then, that Mark Vaile hasn't toughed it out. We haven't spoken to him, but he would have, apart from his own personal concerns about being the target of this aggression, presumably, he's worried about what will happen to the university. Perhaps donations will be withdrawn. Perhaps the political pressure would have continued.

ALAN TUDGE:

I think that's right. I haven't spoken to him directly. I’ve sought to contact him, but I do know his views, and I think you've accurately reflected them. It's deeply disturbing, Chris, that this can occur and where does this stop? You know, if you go after someone like Mark Vaile in Newcastle, of all places, which industry is going to be next, or which part of Newcastle will be next? I mean, Newcastle University has a fantastic mining engineering school. Are the activists going to try to shut that down next? What are they going to do in relation to the buildings which they're in, which have obviously been built off the back of the mining industry, if they're in a concrete building or they've got steel involved? Now, you know, we've got a battle on our hands with these activists and we can't let them win, because if we can't have free speech and free academic enquiry at our universities, then they’re not a proper university, because they fundamentally, those principles, underpin what it is to be university. You can't pursue truth without freedom of speech. You can't advance knowledge without freedom of academic enquiry. And they’re such important principles. And we absolutely have to hold the line in relation to those.

CHRIS KENNY:

You are spot on. And it is a battle. And this is why the culture wars derided by so many are so important. We have to actually stand up and protect our values or they'll be undermined, and we'll see industries, universities, cities effectively closed down. And on that front, you've talked about the culture wars when it comes to the National Curriculum in Parliament today. And you've targeted the history component of that National Curriculum. You said it's not up to scratch. What's wrong with it? What does the National Curriculum get wrong on our nation's history?

ALAN TUDGE:

Well, I'm particularly concerned about the history curriculum, because in some respects, it presents quite a negative view of our history. And I think Australia is the greatest country in the world that we can all be very proud of. And I think students should come out of schooling, having learnt our history in an accurate manner, but with pride in our country coming out of it, a love of country coming out. Whereas I think you'd almost have the opposite view by reading the draft history curriculum. In the 84 pages, Chris, there's barely a positive thing said about our country. Moreover, it doesn't provide the rich underpinnings to teach students about how we did become this successful liberal democracy, because it isn't by accident. It's not by accident that we are such an attractive destination for millions of people around the world to want to come to. And I'd like to see students learn that. So that's my main concern. I want to see love of country embedded in the national history curriculum. And I'm hoping that the Labor Party will share that. And this is the task. Of course, I want to see higher standards as well. Those two key things are really some of the paramount things that I'll be looking for.

CHRIS KENNY:

Well, just finally, though, you’re Federal Education Minister, can't you do this? Can you just reject the National Curriculum and say start again? Or is it a matter of having to get the states to come on board?

ALAN TUDGE:

Yes, so the way it operates is that it's developed by what's called ACARA, the Australian Curriculum Authority, and it's a statutory body at arm's length from government, and jointly owned by the Federal Government and each of the state and territory governments. So effectively, I get one vote on a council of nine. And yes, I would have veto power in that regard, because it tends to operate by consensus. But my ambition is to improve the draft so that we have something which is better than what is currently in place. I want to see those high standards. I want to see those great values which students learn about our history, all parts of it, which would embed a love of country. And I want to see an accurate reflection where people are encouraged to engage in civic life having come out of school. They’re the three things that I'm particularly going to be looking for.

CHRIS KENNY:

Yeah, well, good luck on that. We'll certainly be following progress. Thanks for joining us, Alan.

ALAN TUDGE:

Thanks very much, Chris.