Interview with Raf Epstein - ABC Radio Melbourne
Subjects: More child care support, Restrictions to lift once 70/80 per cent vaccinated and vaccinating 12-16 year old’s.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Both New South Wales and Victoria have announced some significant restrictions on child care, so that makes it harder for those who provide it. The Federal Government has some financial assistance for those child care centres. Alan Tudge is the Liberal MP for the seat of Aston here in Melbourne. He's also the Federal Education Minister, part of Scott Morrison's team. Thanks for joining us, Alan Tudge.
ALAN TUDGE:
G’day, Raf.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Can you just explain, child care is a complex area. What exactly are you providing and who's receiving that money?
ALAN TUDGE:
Yes. So we're providing additional support, which we've announced today. And it will be, for your everyday child care centre, the equivalent of 25 per cent of their pre-lockdown revenue. So that will be provided to that child care centre. And that's on top of the Child Care Subsidy, which they will be getting from the Commonwealth Government as well. And we've made an earlier rule that that subsidy will continue to flow, even if that child is not attending. So you get the Child Care Subsidy, maybe that's worth 40, 50 per cent, plus you'll get that 25 per cent of your revenue as well. The combination means that we can have confidence that those child care centres can stay open for those essential workers. And also, it's good for general families, because one of the conditions will be they have to waive what's called the gap fees, i.e. you can't charge a fee while we're providing this support.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Okay. So, it is actually going to be cheaper for those people sending their kids to child care. It's less out of pocket for them?
ALAN TUDGE:
If you continue to send your child to child care, you'll still pay the normal fees. But one of the problems has been that if you're not sending your child to the centre, and the child care centre says well, if you want to keep your enrolment, you have to keep charging your fees. And parents understandably say well, hang on, that doesn't make any sense. So, we're insisting upon those child care providers waiving those out-of-pocket expenses if you're not using the centre while still maintaining your enrolment.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
So, the only people, the parents aren't going to notice the difference, but the child care centres are and they'll be able to maintain, presumably, their fuller or more full roster of staff. Is that impact?
ALAN TUDGE:
Yeah, correct. Correct. That's the impact. So parents don't pay the fees. Child care centre gets more money and can maintain their staff. That's one of the key things we're trying to achieve. And just as importantly in the short term, to stay open, because we need those child care centres open for the doctors and the nurses, the emergency service workers and all that sort of thing. Because if you don't have those, you might be missing the critical doctors and nurses in the hospitals.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And does it apply to the equivalent of after school care as well?
ALAN TUDGE:
Yes, it does, in fact, even at a higher rate. So, it's going to be 40 per cent of their revenue for the after school hours care.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And so the people providing this care, presumably, have to access the money from the Federal Government. How do they get that?
ALAN TUDGE:
That will happen automatically. So just as the Child Care Subsidy payments do, we’ve got good systems to enable that to occur. It will be paid fortnightly. So they'll be eligible. They'll have to declare that they meet the particular conditions and we’ll deliver that money to them and do obviously some compliance work subsequently to ensure that they were doing what they said they were doing.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
So, are you confident all child care is going to remain open or are you confident that, I don’t know, 80 per cent child care is going to remain open? Do you have an idea?
ALAN TUDGE:
Yeah, I am confident that this will keep the child care centres open, because it should be sufficient for every single provider to be able to do that.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Sorry, Minister, so when you say keep them open, does that mean all of them?
ALAN TUDGE:
That means all of them, because it means that, as I said, if you say are getting, for argument's sake, 50 per cent child care subsidies, so 50 percent of your costs you'll get even if you have no kids going there, then you get that additional 25 per cent that I was talking about that we announced today, you've got 75 percent effectively of your costs covered. Now you can reduce some of your staff if they're casuals, and it means you can stay afloat, stay open, cover your costs so you’re not burning through cash. So that's what the intent is. We need these child care centres to stay open. They are vitally important to enable those essential those essential workers to be able to have the option to drop of your kids.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And to repeat the subsidy, the standard subsidy that is already there, that remains even if the child is not sent to the child care centre?
ALAN TUDGE:
Yeah, that's right. So we'd already made that decision earlier. It's called a gap fee waiver. And so the decision previously that policy will apply, but it was up to each individual child care centre as to whether to waive the gap fees to parents. Today, we're saying if you want to access this additional money, you must waive those gap fees to parents.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And does it come in straight away? I know it doesn't technically come in straight away, because a hotspot needs to be declared. But Sydney and Melbourne have been hotspots for a while. So does it effectively apply straight away?
ALAN TUDGE:
Yeah, it will apply from whenever there is a public health directive that kids should not be attending, unless you're the child of an essential worker. Now, that is now the case in Victoria from today and is the case in New South Wales from today as well. And that was really the additional stimulus for us to quickly announce this package, linked to those public health orders saying don't send your kids to the child care centres unless you’re an essential worker.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Alan Tudge is with us. He's one of Scott Morrison's Ministers, of course. He’s the Minister for Education and Youth. Alan Tudge, the plan to lift restrictions once we get to 70 per cent double-dosed or 80 per cent double-dosed, which restriction comes off first?
ALAN TUDGE:
Oh, that's a good question, and that will be, no doubt, based on the health advice at the time in terms of what makes the most sense. But the plan is very clear that lockdowns generally will not be, as required when we get to 70 per cent.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Can I interrupt, Minister? I appreciate that, because you say the plan is very clear. It just it doesn't seem clear to me at all, only because I understand that principle: lockdowns should be rare. I completely understand that. But it very much looks like Sydney and Melbourne are going to be in some form of restrictions or lockdown until we get to 70 per cent. So, who decides and what restrictions are going to be coming off first?
ALAN TUDGE:
Well, ultimately, it will be State Governments who have those powers. Just as they do, to put the restrictions on, they have the powers to take them off. And they will be making those decisions, just as Dan Andrews has been doing over the last 18 months when he puts them on and inevitably, gradually takes those off. I guess what I'm just pointing out is that we can see the horizon now to get to that 70 per cent and then get to that 80 per cent figure, and it's very clear in the national plan that it says, as a rule, that lockdowns are less likely when you get to 70 per cent and you only have highly targeted lockdowns, if at all, when you get to 80 per cent.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Does that still apply if Sydney's got 100,000 cases? They could be at 5,000 cases a day. If they continue on their current trajectory, in a month's time, they’ll be at 5,000 cases a day. I really hope they don't get there. I really hope it comes down. But it's possible. So does the plan still apply if Sydney’s got 100,000 active cases?
ALAN TUDGE:
It applies regardless of the case numbers at the time. That is the advice of the Doherty Institute, who are Australia's leading infectious health experts. And they've provided the modelling to us, which has been shared with the Premiers’ and that modelling…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But that modelling doesn't have 100,000 active cases, does it, it’s got small outbreaks. The modelling doesn’t have 100,000 cases.
ALAN TUDGE:
Listen, I can't remember the exact figures that are in that modelling, but that is the advice of Doherty, it’s independent of the numbers of cases. Because when you get to that 70 or 80 per cent, it doesn't spread as greatly because being vaccinated means you're far less likely to get it and also, consequently, far less likely to transmit it.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And as the Minister for Youth, Alan Tudge, are you okay with our targets not including people under 16, because that's 70 or 80 per percent figure does not include people under 16. The impact of Delta seems unknown, less than for adults, but not definite and determined. Are you comfortable having targets that don't include people under 16?
ALAN TUDGE:
Well, this was based again on the Doherty advice. That when you get the adult population vaccinated at very high rates, then the risk of transmission is very, very low, more generally, including for kids by definition and their advice was when they looked at the different age cohorts, they said specifically try to get to the 30s to 40 - I think it was 30 to 40-year-olds, it might be 30 to 50-year-olds, vaccinated as quickly as possible because they're the ones that actually interact with more people than any other age cohort, and that’s been the advice.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But as the Youth Minister, if I can narrow that question down, are you concerned the targets don't include people under 16 when we don't know the impact on people under 16?
ALAN TUDGE:
I would certainly like to see the 12 to 16-year-olds vaccinated, and those plans are being worked up at the moment. So and they'll be finalised at the end of this week. You know, I've got two kids in that age bracket myself. So, certainly we want to see teachers vaccinated as well. Frankly, I want to see as many adults as possible vaccinated as quickly as possible.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
What about the under 12s, Alan Tudge? I realise you’re not the Health Minister but there’s a lot of talk about the under 12s.
ALAN TUDGE:
I haven't got the advice on that. I'm not sure if there’s anywhere in the world that has done under 12s yet. I'd have to check on that and get back to you, but that's not the advice to date. So, the advice has been probably will go to 12 to 16s. That's been worked out. That’ll hopefully be a great at National Cabinet on Friday to be able to get those teenage kids vaccinated.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
I know it's rude to ask for a short answer, but do you think New South Wales and Victoria have the same vision of opening up at 70 and 80 per cent? Do you think both Premiers think the same thing?
ALAN TUDGE:
I hope so. I hope so.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But do you think they do? Sorry, Alan Tudge, are you there? Do you think they actually have the same vision?
ALAN TUDGE:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just contemplating that question and I just think the Victorian public want to see the light on the horizon. They can see it and they need to know that Dan Andrews will deliver on what he said he would deliver, and that is that you start opening up at 70 to 80 per cent. That's what he said. That's what he's committed to. He’s committed to this national plan with the Prime Minister. And it's not just with the Prime Minister, but he committed it to the Victorian public, and it's a sense of great hope. And we need that hope.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Okay. I've got to leave it there, Alan Tudge, only because the weather is upon us. But I appreciate your time. Thank you.
ALAN TUDGE:
Thanks, Raf.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Alan Tudge there, the Federal Education Minister. Hopefully that significant package from them will make a big difference to those of you in child care and the child care centre you send your kids to.