Interview - Paul Murray Show, Sky News Live
Subjects: National Curriculum, home schooling through lockdowns.
CHRIS SMITH:
It is something that we’ve spoken about at nauseam, the National Curriculum and the utter garbage which is currently being pedalled within classrooms. Thankfully there was a win today for common sense. Education Minister, Alan Tudge, has told the country schooling authority to go back to the drawing board on its draft of the National Curriculum. Good on him! Finally, someone who’s calling out the stupid PC nonsense. I caught up with Education Minister, Alan Tudge, earlier tonight.
ALAN TUDGE:
A couple of examples. ANZAC Day, for example, is presented as a contested idea rather than what it actually is, being the most sacred day in our calendar where we…
CHRIS SMITH:
A contested idea!
ALAN TUDGE:
… remember the hundred thousand people. A contested idea. So, Australia Day comes out at much more from an invasion day theory perspective rather than the national day. They’re just two very clear examples. The other one which is more from a learning perspective is in relation to phonics. You know, all of your viewers will know that you must teach kids phonics in order to be able to read, that is the sounding out of the letters.
CHRIS SMITH:
Yeah.
ALAN TUDGE:
It does not embed that in the National Curriculum. To the contrary, there's greater emphasis back on the whole language approach, which is the guessing of words. So, that's another example where it's ideology over evidence base and what I'm trying to stamp out.
CHRIS SMITH:
There's enough evidence to suggest, on that subject, that the photographic memorising of words on cards without using phonics is a total failure.
ALAN TUDGE:
Absolutely. The evidence is crystal clear on that, Chris. All the way back to the, there was a, there was a national inquiry in the United States, a national reading inquiry in the United Kingdom, and even our own national reading inquiry back in 2004, all said the same thing, that you must teach kids phonics in order to have the best opportunity to read properly. And this is what is so frustrating about some of these teacher education faculties where they're not always imparting this onto our future teachers, and then they get control of things like this curriculum and embed bad practices based on their ideological approach rather than what's clearly based on the evidence.
CHRIS SMITH:
And all the parents of Australia who have to home school at the moment know this fact only too well, because you're teaching them how to pronounce words through phonics, and you can see that they pick it up quickly and they learn quicker. I can't believe that we're still going on and down that, you know, nouveau primitive path. Now, this negative view of history in civics, in which areas is that obvious? And how?
ALAN TUDGE:
Listen, this is most clearly obvious, in the history curriculum from Year 7 to 10. And if you read all 84 pages of that, there is barely a positive thing said about our great country, and this is what I'm particularly concerned about. That is, it's this very dour, negative view of modern Australia. It barely mentions Christianity, and when it does it's typically in the construct of the power of the church rather than actually, one of the most significant influences on our modern developments, that's certainly the case from what Geoffrey Blainey says.
And my view, Chris, is that kids should properly learn our history but should come out of school with a love of country and a want to make a contribution to our great nation. Because, you know, we are one of the wealthiest, freest, most egalitarian countries in the world. We're a country that millions of people migrate to. And it, it is such a country for a reason and kids should learn about that and they should have immense pride in our country. But the history curriculum certainly doesn't give you that.
CHRIS SMITH:
And look, I’ve got to say it as a parent once again. If you fill your child's head up with cynicism, with negativity, even if there is a scintilla of argument to the contrary which they can be exposed to during their education, but if you fill them with negative thoughts they don't come forward and take opportunity and, and strive to be who they want to be. It is not a good thing to be negative in front of your children, especially in education.
ALAN TUDGE:
No, I think that's exactly right. I mean, you know, particularly now, Chris, with 18 months of COVID and a lot of people feeling a sense of helplessness, we need to be providing that sense of hope and positivity and we need to be using the curriculum for that. Not this dour negative view of Australia, that we're a racist, sexist, whatever else country. We've got our flaws. Absolutely. Let's properly understand that. The kids should properly learn about our history, including some of the appalling treatment of Indigenous peoples in our past.
CHRIS SMITH:
Sure.
ALAN TUDGE:
But overall, this has been a magnificently successful country built on liberal democratic values. And students need to understand that and need to understand that so they can defend it and be proud of it, just as previous generations have.
CHRIS SMITH:
All right. Let's dig down a little further. Is the problem that you face that those who create a curriculum and contribute to that curriculum, are they, I don’t know, hard lefties overrepresented on these committees?
ALAN TUDGE:
Certainly, the majority of people that were consulted for the initial draft, which is out, were from teacher education faculties or education departments, and they don't always reflect a mainstream view of the world.
CHRIS SMITH:
No.
ALAN TUDGE:
And so, I've been very clear in terms of my instructions to ACARA, which is the curriculum authority who is overseeing the development of the curriculum, that they must take into account certain things. It must clearly be based on evidence. It must clearly increase our overall education standards. It must have a positive view of Australia's history, not a very dour one. And it must be decluttered, because at the moment it's 3,500 pages and almost impenetrable to so many people.
CHRIS SMITH:
We could talk for another ten minutes about decluttering the curriculum, but this is a problem that's existed in curriculums in this country for probably close to 25 years. Would you agree?
ALAN TUDGE:
It probably has, Chris, and it is a problem because inevitably, whenever an issue arises, people say, well, kids should be taught this in school. And you can imagine all the things over the years that people have said, well, kids should be taught this in school, even to the extent now that people say we should teach kids how to drive at school. The aim of this exercise with this review of the national curriculum certainly is to try to declutter it and simplify it and get back to the basics. Fundamentally, the kids must be learning to read and to write and to do the mathematics and science properly. That's the most important.
CHRIS SMITH:
On behalf of most parents who have had to look from the other side of teaching in recent times, thank you for standing up for a better curriculum. Now, a couple of quick things while I've got you here. We're struggling, as I say, to do home schooling. What confidence or what can you say to parents out there who really are doing it tough and can see their kids are not getting the kind of- well, grade one, grade two education right now sitting in the kitchen table?
ALAN TUDGE:
I absolutely feel for those parents, I've got a prep boy myself, Chris, so I know exactly what it's like to have a young kid trying to do remote schooling and doesn't really work unless you've got a parent also there full time. So, I absolutely feel for those families in that situation. I am concerned that there will be a lot of lost learning and I am concerned that they won't be getting the development which kids do get from just interacting with one another and being away from home. So, what I'd say to them is just have hope. The vaccine rollout is accelerating. You know, half of the Australian population now has been jabbed at least once. We're getting to those magical figures of 70 to 80 per cent very rapidly, and we’ll get there.
The other thing I'd say, Chris, and more directed really to Year 12s who have had it particularly tough as well, is that know that when they graduate at the end of this year, they will be so many opportunities for them because youth unemployment is at the lowest levels in 12 years. There's more university opportunities than ever before, more training opportunities than ever before. So, while it's tough, hang in there, persist, and there's boundless opportunities when you graduate.
CHRIS SMITH:
Alan Tudge, we've got him on our side, which is good to see. We'll see how he goes rearranging the curriculum.