Interview — Sky News Live, Paul Murray Live
Topics: National Curriculum; Federal Election; Anthony Albanese
E&OE-------------------------------------
PAUL MURRAY:
What our kids are taught in school is, of course, a huge priority. It doesn’t matter if you’ve got kids or grandkids, but we all know that the system now is very different than the one that you and I went through, and most of us believe that it is for the worse. And you don’t even have to look at that when you start to look at our standing on the basics compared to the rest of the world. Acting Education Minister is Stuart Robert, and he joins us now. Because the national curriculum that we’ve been talking about for some time is starting to come together, the states are slowly agreeing on things but my fear in all of this, and it’s one of the reasons why, in my view, we need to keep the Government where it is because I don’t want lefty Education ministers of Queensland, Victoria, and the ACT, deciding what our national curriculum should be. Give us an idea about how close we are to a deal, and what are the no deals for the Morrison Government, Stuart?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Yeah. Thanks, Paul. If you think about the national curriculum, there are three issues in education as a whole that the Morrison Government is working through - what we learn - curriculum; how, by virtue of teacher quality and teacher education; and of course, the environment discipline. So there’s three areas we’re working through. In terms of curriculum, we are getting close. There’s eight objective areas. I think we’re happy with six of them, we’re not happy yet with maths and humanities and social sciences, and nor, by the way, is Western Australia. So the rest of the states and territories are agreeing - Western Australia and the Commonwealth aren’t. The standards in mathematics and humanities and social sciences, they aren’t there yet. So, Education ministers met on Friday, we went through this in great depth. We’ve asked the curriculum authority to go back, work with experts on those two areas, and I’ll reconvene Education ministers in April to see where we’ve got to.
PAUL MURRAY:
So we know that, in the United States, what is taught in schools is a huge issue. Do you see it as an issue at the federal election - that if you can’t get the deal done in April then this would need to be a very public conversation with a very public mandate from the Australian people?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I’d like a public conversation now, Paul. I’d like mums and dads and carers and grandparents to be leaning in right now on what they want taught to their children. If we think about our performance - so 20 years ago we were fourth in the world in reading, now we’re 16th in the OECD, so the industrial world if you like. Twenty years ago we were eighth in the world in science, now we’re 17th; 20 years ago we were 11th in the world in mathematics, now we’re 29th. There’s only 38 countries in the OECD - so in terms of our performance, we have slipped substantially. You are, on average, 12 months behind now as an Australian student than where you were 20 years ago. Now, no one can consider that acceptable.
Now, we have to look at curriculum; we have to look at teacher quality in education; and, we have to look at discipline in classrooms. But in terms of curriculum, it is important. And I’d encourage parents, mums and dads, carers, get involved and have your say right now. Full transparency, we want parents involved.
PAUL MURRAY:
So when we talk about things like control of the classroom, I feel that that doesn’t cost a dollar. Doesn’t cost one dollar but we do need to loosen up scenarios where kids get to accuse teachers of assault if they walk in and pull earphones out of their ears. I mean, what do we do in terms of the rules to re-empower the teacher to have control? Sure, they’re not getting the cane anytime soon, but how do they- how do we move back to the happy medium?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Over the next few weeks, Paul, we’ll be outlining and we’ll, first of all, release our report into where we’re going with initial teacher education in terms of how we keep our teachers consistently educated and some of the best teachers in the world. And we’ll also release what we’re going to do in this issue of discipline in classroom and in the environment, because the environment our kids learn in is so very important. And I’d be super keen for parents to engage in that as well. I want to know what parents think about where we should be going on these important issues.
PAUL MURRAY:
Alright. Make sure that we’ll post as much of it on our socials, otherwise, we’ll give people the websites to go and have a look at it. Now, in one of the descriptions about this particular changes that’s being discussed, it’s less Greta Thunberg, but more Gough Whitlam. Now, that doesn’t exactly sound like music to, certainly, centre-right people’s ears. But that said, it’s not just about, you know, the learnings of the Liberal Party, it’s about the learnings of the country. But we certainly hope that the learning of Gough Whitlam isn’t just: evil Liberals took down an amazing Prime Minister. We want the truth in there which is two elections after he was removed as Prime Minister, the Australian people said: no, thank you, to Gough Whitlam.
MINISTER ROBERT:
The issue isn’t so much Gough. The early editions - and that’s been sorted now - didn’t teach Gough or Menzies, but it taught Greta Thunberg.
PAUL MURRAY:
Yeah.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Now, clearly that’s unacceptable. People should have a balanced view of our liberal democracy. If you look at primary school in Singapore, the outcome out of the primary school years in Singapore is quite simple: to know and love Singapore. I think that’s a great set of outcomes, and that’s what we want in Australia - people to know and love Australia; to have a good understanding of what and who Australia is. In early drafts, and again we’ve corrected that, you were taught in Year 2 to identify racist statues, but you weren’t taught about the First Fleet and Captain Cook until Year 4 - again, clearly unacceptable. A lot of those issues have been resolved. We’re now down to dealing with maths and the maths curriculum. So it’s mastery, not just identifying and enquiry. And of course, in humanities and social sciences, it’s still very, very busy - we need to drop it down a little bit more.
A lot of areas are not mandatory to study. For example, from Year 9 onwards, there’s no need to study from 1788, from settlement with the British arriving right through to the start of the First World War. So, we’d like to see a lot more of that type of history included so Australian children have a good, well rounded view of a country they should know and love.
PAUL MURRAY:
Fair point. Last one’s overtly political. New ad from the Liberal Party - it is a direct hit on Anthony Albanese. If you just turned the telly on, here it is.
[Excerpt]
VOICE OVER:
After spending his entire adult life in professional politics, what do we actually know about Anthony Albanese? He’s never held a financial portfolio, never held a national security portfolio, he’s never delivered a budget. He supported higher taxes on retirees, housing, super, and inheritances, and unwinding Australia’s strong border protection. But lately, no one knows what he stands for. Don’t risk our recovery with Labor.
[End of excerpt]
PAUL MURRAY:
Why is the first message from the Liberal Party, this one, about Albo in the election?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, because it’s factual, Paul. Why don’t we start with telling the truth? And the truth will set you free, the good book tells us. And they are the facts. That is the truth. Now, I know Mr Albanese is playing a very, very, almost invisible game at present, wanting the election to be a referendum on the Government. An election is a choice between two competing views, two competing teams, and two competing leaders - Mr Albanese versus Mr Morrison. We should always start with the facts, and they are the facts, and they are not contested.
PAUL MURRAY:
Good stuff, Minister. Nice to talk to you. All the best.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Thanks, Paul.
PAUL MURRAY:
Stuart Robert, who is, of course, the Acting Education Minister on top of a whole lot of others, and he’s in Parliament with the rest of the team of the Government and the Opposition trying to take them down this week in Canberra.