Interview — Sky News Live Afternoon Agenda with Kieran Gilbert
E&OE----------------------------
Topics: AUKUS, August Labour Force Figures, Vaccination certificates
KIERAN GILBERT:
Welcome back to the program. Now Australia is set to acquire this nuclear submarine capability under a major defence partnership with the US and UK. Joining me is the Employment Minister, former army officer as well, Stuart Robert. How do you reflect on this and the importance of the announcement which was confirmed by the Prime Minister, the President and the British leader?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Historic is a word that comes to mind, Kieran. I think it's an overused term, but in this case it is absolutely apt. The Prime Minister speaks of forever friends. We are heading down this path now with our two oldest friends and greatest allies, to join together to develop what is an historic tripartite defence agreement with a nuclear powered submarine as the first of many initiatives, and this will join us at the strategic hip from this day to the end of days.
KIERAN GILBERT:
We heard Greg Moriarty at the news conference saying that this is just the first technology, that there will be others which will be following suit like quantum or artificial intelligence, things like that. How big is the scope for cooperation and interoperability on that?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, if you think of the issues that were announced today, not just quantum, not just artificial intelligence, cyber, hypersonics, cruise missiles, surface to air missiles, ground to ground attack weapons. That is a very wide geostrategic focus, which gives you an idea of the strategic depth. We’re now taking this relationship across three great friends, and it will be enduring because once we start this process, especially on the first project being nuclear propulsion for submarines, which is what the Brits did in the 60s, it will be ongoing and it will be enduring.
KIERAN GILBERT:
I asked the Prime Minister about this at the news conference today, but I'll ask you as well, we have ANZUS now we've got AUKUS and the fact is, though, there's no binding commitment to show up. If you get a president that maybe isn't as supportive of alliances, isn't it better to have something like the Article 5 in the NATO treaty, which requires collective defence? If someone's attacked, everyone has to show up to help.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, the ANZUS treaty makes it very clear that attack on one is an attack on all. And we've got a number of strategic engagements and agreements, not just the Five Eyes structure, not just ANZUS, not just the quad, of course our deep strategic ties with our ASEAN friends and of course our Pacific Islands family that are so very dear to us.
These structures have stood us in good stead for a very long time. And every time we need support, we've called on it and it's been answered. And I think the history of our engagements, our relationships, our agreements show the strength of them.
And more importantly, now where we're going with AUKUS shows the great strength again, with three leaders standing together, committing long term, committing to the lives of their children and their grandchildren to stand beside each other as freedom loving democratic nations of the world. Kieran, I think that's pretty special.
KIERAN GILBERT:
A senior government source said to me, though, after the announcement that this would not have been achieved if Donald Trump was re-elected because of his volatility and it would not have happened if not for Brexit if the UK was still in Europe.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Those are all hypotheticals. What we do know is that this morning at seven o’clock our time, the Prime Minister led the press conference with the US President and the UK Prime Minister to announce something truly extraordinary, something that will outlive us all and is designed to give geostrategic certainty to our nation at a time of some uncertainty. And that is historic.
KIERAN GILBERT:
We see the unemployment rate today - if we move our focus back to your area of responsibility as Minister for Employment - the rate's fallen, but the number of jobs fell dramatically given the participation rate is off in a huge way because of the lockdowns. How hard is it going to be for us to see another V-shaped recovery? Is that possible?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Absolutely it’s possible. Kieran, we’ve seen each time the numbers have come out, all throughout the year there’s been enormous volatility. And that's all been driven by lockdowns and COVID responses. And every time the lockdown is finished, we’ve seen the economy roar back.
Today's numbers are a story of lockdowns, with New South Wales in complete lockdown during the reporting period. Victoria going into lockdown, Queensland coming out. It's a story of over 170,000 jobs lost in New South Wales, but 29,000 jobs gained in Victoria, even though during the reporting period Victoria, of course, was going into lockdown. So, we see the capacity for the economy to roar back. That is why it is so important to get vaccinated, so important to hit 80 per cent, so important to get those borders down. And today with first doses across the country at 70 per cent, we can start to see the light at the end of the tunnel Kieran, where we'll see the economy roar back. And it will, and it's shown that time and time again.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Now you have been across the technology response for COVID apps and ensuring interoperability, the same term we used for the previous discussion, but will there be interoperability across state borders for their QR codes. Is that something that is being achieved through vaccine certificates?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Absolutely. So if you think about it in two terms, we'll be producing a vaccine certificate internationally. Right now, for example, you've got a little yellow vaccination card. If you go to Africa, you have to have yellow fever. There is an ICAO- International Civil Aviation Organisation - standard on how the world can understand and accept each other's vaccination. And there's a certified standard for that. We'll have that ready to go when our borders open, so Australians travelling internationally will have a certificate able to be read with their passport overseas.
And of course, domestically, we've agreed the states and territories, that we’ll provide the data of vaccination status. So, your record of immunisation through the state and territories, their current QR checking apps or their service apps. And that way, if a state requires certain public health orders, you can check in using your state based app, and show your vaccination status, all at the same time, all with a simple customer experience through these state based apps.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Are you comfortable with the way this is unfolding, where you've got some jurisdictions like the Northern Territory saying, you can't come to the top end unless you've had the two jabs, some companies saying you can't use our services, whether it be airlines or even the roulette table at the Crown Casino, unless you've had the two jabs. Is this the way it should unfold or should there be a bit more guidance federally?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, the states are responsible for public health orders. The states are responsible for their occupational health and safety legislation, so each state is responsible to make those decisions and those powers are not being ceded to the Commonwealth. Therefore, they do sit with the states. Whether we accept it or not or like it or not, that's where the powers sit.
So, the states should be the ones who make determinations. The state should be the ones mandating the use of technology and we’ll of course work with them and provide the record of immunisation into it. Therefore, a citizen can respond to state law, state requirements and state occupational health and safety needs. That's just the way the Commonwealth is built, Kieran, why it's called a Commonwealth. A federated model of states.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Almost out of time, but the Christian Porter, latest drama around disclosure. What needs to happen there?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I think the Prime Minister has responded with this quite clearly. He's made the point that his department will give him advice as he sought, as he has in previous matters. And then the Prime Minister will make a decision. It's the time honoured path that gives procedural fairness to everyone. And it's completely consistent with how the Prime Minister has acted in the past.
KIERAN GILBERT:
The lack of transparency is a bit of a worry, though, isn't it, when you're talking about a blind trust for donations of hundreds of thousands of dollars?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The Prime Minister sought advice, he'll get that advice and he'll make a decision, and then we'll all have clarity as to the matter. The key thing is the Prime Minister's acting consistently on this, as he always has.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Stuart Robert, thanks for your time.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Thanks. Very good to talk to you.