Interview — Sky News Live Afternoon Agenda with Kieran Gilbert
KIERAN GILBERT:
Joining me now in the studio is the Acting Education Minister, also Employment Minister, Stuart Robert. Thanks for your time. It hasn’t been a pretty bad week for the Government, you must concede?
Five of your colleagues crossing the floor this morning and the Religious Discrimination Bill essentially stalled until beyond the election now.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Politics is always challenging, and Kieran, it's always what you can get from a parliament going forward. In our parliament, of course, our party, you can cross the floor. That's accepted. The Labor Party, of course you'll be expelled. But I'm less concerned about the five crossing the floor as I am with the amendments that have just been passed. I've just come from a meeting with the Attorney General. There are substantial legal concerns that the amendments passed under Section 37, which is about religious bodies as opposed to Section 38 or Section 21 that deal with education, will actually have an unintended consequence now of allowing schools to discriminate against gay kids.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But they haven’t gone through the Senate, so it's a moot point.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, the point is a bill has passed the House with unintended consequences that may well allow discrimination against kids. So clearly this needs to be reviewed rapidly before it goes to the Senate, so we can understand and ostensibly address this.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Sure. But in terms of where this is at, the Religious Discrimination Bill has stalled. It was an election promise. It's not going to be delivered.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, the Religious Discrimination Bill passed in its entirety by the Government…
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Interrupts] Why not put it to the Senate?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The changes to the Sex Discrimination Act, they are the issues that the amendments last night potentially have stuffed up.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Separate legislation. Why not put the Religious Discrimination Bill to the Senate? You didn’t have the numbers, is that right?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The option is to be considered at a later date. Right now, the biggest concern I've got is the changes to the Sexual Discrimination Act, whereby the unintended consequence relying on a general provision under Section 37 is that schools may now be able to discriminate. And schools don't, schools are great. They've not been discriminating. None of this has been happening. Schools, in my experience, have just been excellent. But we have a problem now, and this is the issue with unintended consequences of rushed amendments. And this is why we wanted these amendments to go to the Law Reform Council for proper review.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But doesn't it also show the problem of leaving this to the 11th hour before the election?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well we've been negotiating, ensuring people are informed, taking counsel input from various schools and organisations.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But obviously if you lose five of your own side, it hasn't been done well enough – you concede that?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The Liberal Party allows members to exercise a conscience where they feel a need to, and that's what you saw last night. Labor, of course, you'd be expelled from the party. There's no democracy there at all.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Sure, I get all that. But when it's the Prime Minister wanting to push and establish his own agenda and own legislation and he can't do it…
MINISTER ROBERT:
[Talks over] Let me correct you.
KIERAN GILBERT:
That’s a pretty messy scenario.
MINISTER ROBERT:
We took this to the election. The Religious Discrimination Act- Bill, which means-
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Talks over] Totally, I understand that. But you’re trying to legislate that and he can't do it.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Every single member of Parliament that was elected agreed with the platform. They all did. And we're fulfilling our election commitments, as you'd expect a responsible government to do.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Not really, fulfilling it.
MINISTER ROBERT:
No, absolutely. Absolutely we are.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Where is it in the Senate?
MINISTER ROBERT:
We've put it through the House. The problem is, is at the same time, these amendments to the Sexual Discrimination Act have now created quite a problem for schools.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Yeah, but it's a separate bill. You can put the Religious Discrimination Bill to the Upper House. You're not doing that; you're not fulfilling your election commitment. That's the reality.
MINISTER ROBERT:
No, our intent is to continue to fulfil our commitments, but we've got to address this substantial problem that rushed amendments may well have put in place.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But getting to that point of- you said it was an election commitment, that's correct. You're not putting it through the Parliament. It's a broken promise.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Not at all. The Religious Discrimination Bill…
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Talks over] So you haven't given up?
MINISTER ROBERT:
…has passed the House.
KIERAN GILBERT:
So you’re going to bring it back in the budget week?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I'll let others speak to that in terms of the leadership. But the problem I've got now and the Attorney-General has got now, and as the Education Minister, I've got rushed amendments that may well head to the Senate will now have potentially a deleterious effect on what happens to gay kids. Now that's clearly unacceptable because we've made the point no child should ever be excluded from a school because of their sexual orientation, and rushed amendments have now made this difficult.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Amendments voted in support of by five of your fellow Liberals.
MINISTER ROBERT:
As I said, the Liberal Party doesn't throw you out of the party for seeking to cross the floor on something you believe in. The problem was, is that the particular amendments may well be severely errant.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But should the Government have done its due diligence in terms of thinking about what your own side believes before you put this to a vote?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, the Government does.
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Talks over] Because the week has ended up being a massive own goal for the Prime Minister.
MINISTER ROBERT:
The Government does. The Government always looks to put forward an agenda, explains it to members that have passed the party room. All of that was done. Now, Liberal Party members have exercised another choice.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But you didn't expect five to vote against? Is that- did that take you by surprise?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I'm not the Leader of the House, it's a question for Minister Dutton. They've exercised a conscience which the Liberal Party allows and Labor doesn't. The problem we've got now is unintended consequences in those amendments, and that is a serious problem.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Peter Dutton in Question Time seemed to suggest that the Chinese Communist Party was targeting Labor off the back of Mike Burgess's speech last night. Mike Burgess didn't state which jurisdiction was being targeted, which country was responsible and which party was the target. But Mr Dutton has implied that in Question Time. Is that appropriate?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I'll leave that to the Defence Minister. That's a national security matter. I'll let him answer those questions.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But in your judgement, you're a former army officer yourself. You look at that scenario; the ASIO Director General didn't see it fit to go into any of that detail. In the House of Reps, Mr Dutton has gone into more detail. Is that appropriate?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Again, I'm not briefed on the matter Kieran, and I shouldn't speak on matters I'm not briefed on. That would be unwise. That would be a question for the Defence Minister.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But you are a member of that frontbench. Were you comfortable with that?
MINISTER ROBERT:
My experience is that Minister Dutton is generally in control of his facts.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Yeah, that's fine to be in control of your facts, but in national security you don't always divulge the facts do you?
MINISTER ROBERT:
There's a time and place for everything. And again, it's a question for the Minister.
KIERAN GILBERT:
So you're comfortable with it?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I've found no reason ever not to be comfortable with Minister Dutton's control of the facts or control of the Department of Defence. I think he's exceptional.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Stuart Robert, thanks for your time.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Thanks Kieran.