Interview with Kieran Gilbert, Sky News Live Afternoon Agenda

KIERAN GILBERT:

Let’s go live to the Employment Minister Stuart Robert. Talking about going across borders, we saw this scenario where two planeloads into Queensland were basically told they’d need to isolate. That was changed, do you believe common sense prevailed there?

MINISTER ROBERT:

I think common sense was shown to have prevailed, Kieran. You can’t just have planeloads thrust into quarantine for two weeks, it would be an absolute confidence and certainty killer. So I think common sense has walked in the door, and that’s a good thing.

KIERAN GILBERT:

We know what a wonderful state it is, and obviously many of us have spent so many wonderful holidays in Queensland, but there’s only so much you can put up with, isn’t there, in terms of a tourism dollar. Couple of tests here and there, fine. But being told you’re going to lose your holiday on the- you know, so- on the basis of one case on a plane, that would wreck the prospects for that industry, wouldn’t it?

MINISTER ROBERT:

It would be terrible. I’m speaking to you, Kieran, from the Gold Coast. The weather is magnificent, everyone should come and holiday here. And we’ve seen tens of thousands of people cross the border since Monday, since borders have been open. So we need a common sense, sensible approach, an approach that is anchored in the National Plan. The National Plan, of course, is underpinned by the Doherty modelling, that shows at 80 per cent we can open up safely. And that's what Queensland is doing, and we're seeing that across the country as well. So one planeload whereby there's a contact, and then the whole plane is a close contact, has been seen to be over the top. The Government has modified their view, which is very, very welcome. Which means Queensland is well and truly open for business, and the Gold Coast is open for the nation's tourists to come and enjoy the beach.

KIERAN GILBERT:

This is a new alert we've got in for the second- a second flight affected. Everyone from row 22 to 28 will be a close contact, everyone else casual. So it is restricting the amount of people that are going to have to isolate. But wow, what a headache for those concerned.

MINISTER ROBERT:

Yes, slightly untidy. At least a nuanced approach is being taken. You'd be thankful you're in seat 21.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Yes, indeed, you would or, you know, maybe stay in Melbourne. I mean, I think- I can understand why a lot of people would probably be not so ambitious in terms of their holiday plans this year. Explain to me the thinking- I know the government’s saying that this analysis by the Nine papers on the programme- the grants programme has been selective because it's only 11 programmes. But my understanding is that the journalists concerned have looked at the discretionary programmes, and that would make sense to me, that if you're looking at government decisions, you look at the discretionary grants programmes, and it's not a good look for the government, let's be frank.

MINISTER ROBERT:

Well, 11 programmes out of 1,700, so less than one per cent. Remember 60 per cent of programmes the government does are in the care sector. So the journalists in question have excluded, for example, a lot of the NDIS programmes. Otherwise, there's $87.5 million going into the seat of Grayndler, which is Anthony Albanese’s seat. And of course, that is, coincidentally, not included. It is selective. It's less than one per cent. Guidelines are quite clear in terms of how they’re to be done. A lot of programmes, of course, cover rural and remote, and the Coalition is the vast holder of seats in rural and remote, whilst the Labor Party tends to coalesce around inner city. So I think it's a little disingenuous, can I say Kieran.

KIERAN GILBERT:

But is that programme you talk about, the NDIS programme, are you comparing apples with apples? Because we're talking here about this Nine analysis, which talks about discretionary programmes. Many government grant programmes don't allow that sort of discretion. The departments follow the rules. That's how the money is delivered. Here, you've got Bass or Braddon, the roads are paved in gold, Franklin or Clark on the other side of Tasmania, and they can struggle to get a buck.

MINISTER ROBERT:

All grant programmes have got a set of rules - and I've heard the Finance Minister speaking about that earlier this afternoon on your programme - that must be followed. There are guidelines that must be adhered to. And of course, the Auditor-General audits these as he or she should. So the guidelines need to be followed. If there is discretion for a minister, so be it. But it starts by following whatever the guidelines are. And of course, communities need to bid. And clearly, communities are bidding strongly.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Is there always some element of pork barrelling, though? Is this — do you believe as a politician that we just have to accept a level of pork barrelling? Because it seems like it's hard to remove it. Some of these comparisons, as I said earlier, are quite stark from one seat to the next, just because it's a marginal electorate like Wentworth, for example.

MINISTER ROBERT:

Well, Wentworth is the smallest seat in the country, 24 square kilometres compared to 1.5 million square kilometres in Durack. So it's a little difficult to have an apples versus apples conversation. The key thing is the rules need to be followed, Kieran. Rules are signed off, they're agreed and they need to be followed. And ministers need to follow the rules, departments need to follow the rules and indeed  community groups, bidding for grant rounds need to follow the rules. And if everyone does that, the system works really well.

KIERAN GILBERT:

The MYEFO tomorrow is going to show the $50 billion cost of the COVID payments and the NDIS increasing its demands upon the budget. Is it time the Government undertakes some serious reform in order to fund not just the one off payments like COVID, but some of these structural costs that are going to be there for decades to come?

MINISTER ROBERT:

Most important thing is we grow the economy because by growing the economy, we've got the means in the economics to be able to fund things that matter, and the NDIS is being built out by a coalition government. We're the only ones Kieran, who can be trusted to actually fund it properly. Six years ago, the entire Commonwealth and states were spending $7 billion per annum on Australians with a disability. We're doing it every three months now. That's the extent by which we're providing services to Australians that need it. And Australians with disability, they can look at the numbers, they can see it's being funded, they can see the Commonwealth or the Morrison Government as the Commonwealth lead can be trusted to deliver on it. They're important services, Kieran. Everyone knows someone with a disability, whether it's family members, cousins in my case, many with sons and daughters, aunts and uncles, mums and dads. And that social safety net is so important and we need to have confidence that social insurance will be there and that's why the Government is up there. That's why the Government is providing the funds we need. That’s why the Morrison Government can be trusted, Kieran, to deliver it and ensure that we deliver it for the years to come.

KIERAN GILBERT:

But you say growing the economy, the Finance Minister said a similar point. But that's hardly a reform. That's just the — you know, the end result. What are the reforms in order to grow the pie?

MINISTER ROBERT:

Well, the NDIS in terms of the social insurance, for those with disability is the major reform. It's about choice and control providing reasonable and necessary support for Australians with permanent and significant disability. So that's the reform piece. We now need an economy to grow, and the best thing we can do right now is for big government to get out of the way, for borders to stay open and for the zeal and the drive and the entrepreneurship of the Australian economy to really find its zenith. It's why you'll see in in MYEFO and following in the budget a lot more work on deregulating the economy, how we get out of the way, how we stop people, having to spend hours working through government programmes. I mean tax file numbers is a great example. We've reduced it from four weeks to four minutes and there'll be more and more of this deregulation agenda rolling out so we can free the economy to deliver what we need to fund the essential services we all rely on.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Finally, before we go, we're almost out of time, but you're the Acting Education Minister. The NAPLAN results overall, is it better than what you'd hoped or expected I should say, given the lengthy lockdowns in large parts of the country?

MINISTER ROBERT:

NAPLAN of course, Kieran was cancelled last year, 2020, so we're comparing this year's results to pre-COVID and at the macro, what they show is no discernible difference. And that's extraordinary considering the lockdowns and some of the heartaches. And we've just got to say a big thank you to the mums and dads, the teachers, the carers, the grandparents, everyone who worked with students so that during some of these difficult periods, we're seeing no discernible difference between two years ago, pre-COVID and now. So big thumbs up to our parents, carers and educators. However, the beauty of standardised testing, it does show us areas where we've all got to improve on; vulnerable children, indigenous kids, rural and remote. Boys in year nine, one in five is below the national average, and yet boys are doing better than girls in numeracy. So lots of areas for us all to work on to improve together.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Yeah, well, I'll tell you what, having done a bit of home-schooling myself, teachers don't get paid enough. Stuart Robert, thank you. Appreciate it. And all the best for Christmas.

MINISTER ROBERT:

Great to talk to you, Teacher Kieran.