Interview - ABC Insiders with David Speers
Topics: COVID-19 vaccination and quarantine arrangements, Australia’s labour market, Australia Post and other government owned business remuneration arrangements, NDIS.
E&OE
DAVID SPEERS:
Stuart Robert, welcome to the programme.
Let’s just start on this point of confusion, as Labor puts it. The Health Minister says the international border may not open, even if the whole country is vaccinated. The Prime Minister says the border may open for some who have been fully vaccinated, they might be able to use home quarantine. So can you just clear this up for us? Which is it?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The Prime Minister, David, always speaks for the country first of all, and the PM’s made it quite clear that there are options to start moving forward to open the borders, depending upon working with the states, and of course once we get the medical advice as to whether the COVID virus can be transmitted if someone has been vaccinated or previously had the virus. All of those are determinant.
DAVID SPEERS:
Obviously the states have to agree, but the Federal Government’s preference is that if you’re fully vaccinated, you should be able to travel abroad and then hotel quarantine?
MINISTER ROBERT:
That was what the Prime Minister said, that was the point he made, that that would make logical sense in the first step, but again we need to work with states and territories on this. They’re the ones that are managing quarantines, and of course we need to ensure that borders stay open.
DAVID SPEERS:
Sure. Your point is right, the states have to agree to this, but is the Federal Government’s view is what I’m trying to get to here – that you could do this before the whole population is vaccinated. Would it just be the elderly and vulnerable protected, then you could start having this sort of travel?
MINISTER ROBERT:
These are the points the Prime Minister made, that moving for Australians who are vaccinated more quickly to be able to travel overseas and come back again, perhaps with home quarantine, would be a logical first step.
DAVID SPEERS:
So, before the whole population is necessarily vaccinated?
MINISTER ROBERT:
And that was what the Prime Minister was pointing out as possible next steps, depending upon working with the states and territories.
DAVID SPEERS:
I guess one of the concerns about home quarantine is how do you ensure people stay at home, don’t have visitors at home? You can do that at a hotel, but how do you do it with home quarantine?
MINISTER ROBERT:
These are the challenges with home quarantine, and we saw that in the early days of the Victorian lockdown. All of that will need to be worked through, David, before a policy prescription goes live.
DAVID SPEERS:
So, what sort of ideas would there be for this? Regular visits, inspections to make sure they’re home? Ankle bracelets, some sort of monitoring? How do you do it?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, if you think about it, I spent three or four months in home quarantine as we travelled as a Cabinet Minister during the pandemic last year, as an agreement between the state and Federal Government, as did a number of my other Cabinet colleagues. The police would turn up at random times to our house, they would call, the Department of Health of respective jurisdictions would call. They were some of the measures that were put in place to deal with that exact issue.
DAVID SPEERS:
And when the Prime Minister says we may have to get used to having 1,000 cases a week in Australia once enough people are vaccinated, what do you understand he’s talking about there? Do you think people will be comfortable with that?
MINISTER ROBERT:
One of the challenges, of course, is if we vaccinate the population, it’s voluntary. We’d hope that the vast majority of Australians would be vaccinated. But if only 80 per cent are vaccinated or 90 per cent, you would still have 10 per cent who are not vaccinated, over the age of 18, and therefore unprotected. And that leaves open the opportunity, unfortunately, for COVID to still roll through the community. And that’s just the reality of when people have choices, as they should in Australia.
DAVID SPEERS:
So you think at that point it’s okay to open up the border and allow about 1,000 cases a week?
MINISTER ROBERT:
These are the conversations we’re going to have to have, and this is the point the Prime Minister was making, which is why the National Cabinet is now moving...
DAVID SPEERS:
[Interrupts] Would you be comfortable with that, 1,000 cases a week?
MINISTER ROBERT:
It’s not a matter of what I’ll be comfortable with. It’s a matter of what we can actually work with the states and territories on and what the Australian people will accept. Now, we’ll need to continue with the vaccine rollout, make sensible decisions as we go in terms of opening our international borders to allow Australians to freely move in and out, also to allow skilled migration, which will become important, as well as international students, and all of those questions we’ll have to work through. It’s why the National Cabinet is now meeting twice a week, almost on a war footing, if you like, to quote some commentators, to ensure these questions are all flushed out.
DAVID SPEERS:
Let’s talk about the jobs figures. There was more strong jobs growth last month before the withdrawal of JobKeeper. You’ve been talking this week about how well the plan is going. What do you say to those who can’t find work right now?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The job rate at 5.6 per cent, participation at 66.3. The numbers are pleasing, but cautiously optimistic. However, we also understand that Australians are doing it tough, there’s no question about that. There are some really encouraging signs, David. We’re seeing the highest rate of job advertisements at least in 12 years, so there’s certainly work out there, and the anecdotal evidence I get from employers is they’re struggling to find skilled people.
My encouragement for Australians looking for work is we have JobTrainer, 300,000 places people can enrol in until September this year to get the skills they need. And I would encourage all Australians, if they’re looking to re-skill, JobTrainer is the perfect opportunity. And for those who wish to go into apprenticeships, 100,000 apprenticeships which the Commonwealth is covering 50 per cent of it. So we are very focused in terms of getting the skills to Australians so they can take up positions that are available.
DAVID SPEERS:
I note you didn’t mention there JobMaker. This is one of the centrepiece elements of last year’s, or the October Budget, the $200 a week subsidy to hire someone under the age of 35. There’s been- well, it hasn’t exactly worked, has it? By now there should have been 10,000 jobs supported, it turns out only about 600 or so have been. Does that need to be re-worked? Should it be available to those over the age of 35 as well?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Again, we won’t get ahead of ourselves in the Budget context, David, we’ll wait and see what the Treasurer’s got to say in that respect. But there’s a range of measures, like bricks in the wall, if you will, and the JobTrainer program has been extraordinarily well taken up, as has apprenticeships and a range of these programs. We’ll continue to try different approaches to encourage Australians to get into work...
DAVID SPEERS:
[Interrupts] You can’t say it’s been well taken up, can you, if it was meant to be 10,000 by now and it’s 600?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, the take-up in the JobMaker hiring credit has been lower, but the take-up in apprenticeships and JobTrainer has been faster than we thought, so again, policy prescriptions all working together.
DAVID SPEERS:
Let me ask you about Christine Holgate. Did you share the Prime Minister’s view that it was appalling and disgraceful that she gave Cartier watches to employees worth around $20,000?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I’m not going to get into the Christine Holgate issue. It’s one job. I’ve got to focus on 13,077,000 jobs. The key issue is...
DAVID SPEERS:
[Interrupts] Nice try to avoid it there, Minister. Sorry, but this has been a pretty prominent issue during the week. I’m just wondering if you shared your Prime Minister’s view at the time that what she did was appalling and disgraceful?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I wasn’t close enough to it, David, wasn’t close enough to the issues, and nor am I across the degrees to which the government business enterprise can do or cannot do...
DAVID SPEERS:
[Interrupts] Well, it’s not a lot to be across here. It’s not a detailed question. She bought some Cartier watches for four employees, they were worth $20,000 in total. Was that appalling?
MINISTER ROBERT:
It was probably unwise for a government business enterprise to do that. I think that point’s been well made, and then of course it was independently investigated.
DAVID SPEERS:
Okay. Well, if it was unwise or, to use the Prime Minister’s words, appalling and disgraceful, what about the NBN and the bonuses they paid just in the last six months of last year? $77 million in bonuses. Is that unwise or indeed appalling?
MINISTER ROBERT:
You can’t conflate the two...
DAVID SPEERS:
[Talks over] Why not?
MINISTER ROBERT:
...and the Communications Minister’s made it very clear that the entire remuneration package of NBN is completely separate, in fact, mostly set in the Labor days, and those bonuses you say are actually an integral part of the remuneration packages that were set, entirely separate to a bonus structure like you saw in Australia Post.
DAVID SPEERS:
What about something that you had direct involvement in, and that was the $1.2 billion settlement of the Robodebt class action. Was that an appalling waste of money?
MINISTER ROBERT:
It was, unfortunately, a 30-year practice where the use of average income data from the ATO frankly wasn’t sufficient. And until this government actually got advice to say it wasn’t sufficient, and therefore funds were actually paid back, it was a longstanding practice of government that just turned out to be incorrect.
DAVID SPEERS:
But there was no inquiry into this, no-one had to stand aside. You didn’t have to stand aside. Isn’t there a double standard here, where Christine Holgate, $20,000 worth of watches has to stand aside and be subject to a review and inquiry. A $1.2 billion debt for Robodebt and no one pays a price?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Again, David, they’re very different issues. In terms of the income compliance program, Robodebt, that was a longstanding program over 30 years that had followed exactly the same way of doing things, the use of average income data...
DAVID SPEERS:
[Interrupts] Well, only to a degree, Minister. Sorry to jump in there, but I’ve got to correct that, because we know Scott Morrison and Christian Porter in 2016 proudly boasted that they were ramping up the Robodebt scheme. They were expanding its use quite considerably.
MINISTER ROBERT:
They were, on exactly the same terms as the program had been used 25 years previously, on exactly the same basis, albeit on a larger scale.
DAVID SPEERS:
Removing that human oversight.
MINISTER ROBERT:
There was always human oversight, it was just the use of computer matching on income compliance, as opposed to it being done previously entirely by humans. But there was still a person in that chain, David. But suffice to say that that was a continuation of a longstanding program that had been well accepted and well used by governments over 30 years.
DAVID SPEERS:
Let me ask you finally about your legacy in your previous job as the Minister for the NDIS. Part of what you wanted to do there was to introduce mandatory independent assessments for NDIS participants. Is that now dead in the water, under the new Minister?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I’ll let Minister Reynolds speak for herself. But remember, David, independent assessments were a core part of the Productivity Commission’s review in 2011. John Walsh, the father of the scheme, if you like, is passionate for them, he was one of the authors of the 2011 Productivity Commission report. David Tune also reiterated it. This is about equity. This is ensuring that someone in northern Tasmania, in Devonport, who gets an $80,000 plan as opposed to in the seat of Hobart gets a $105,000 plan...
DAVID SPEERS:
[Interrupts] So these independent assessments will still happen?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Independent assessments, David, were always intended to be part of the NDIS. That was always the intent. We’re now on the second trial over the last two and a half years. I’ve read Minister Reynolds’ public statements saying she’s waiting to the end of the current trial, which will be in the coming months, so I guess we’ll find out then.
DAVID SPEERS:
Sounds like they will still go ahead.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Say again, David.
DAVID SPEERS:
Sounds like they will still go ahead.
MINISTER ROBERT:
That was the original design of the scheme, David. That’s exactly how the Productivity Commission designed the scheme to be.
DAVID SPEERS:
All right. Stuart Robert, thanks for joining us.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Great to talk to you.
[ENDS]