ABC News Afternoon Briefing with Patricia Karvelas
E&OE-------------------------------------
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Returning out our top story this afternoon, Australia’s unemployment rate fell to 5.5 per cent in April. That’s despite around 31,000 jobs being lost in the month according to the Bureau of Statistics. The latest figures follows the end of the Federal Government’s JobKeeper wage subsidy. I spoke to the Employment Minister Stuart Robert a short time ago.
[Excerpt]
Minister, welcome to the program.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Thanks, Patricia. Great to be here. I am at Baker & Provan in Penrith in Western Sydney at a big industrial site. It’s been a great day with Melissa McIntosh so really good to join you here.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Now, is this really a good result given overall employment fell by more than 30,000 jobs and the participation rate dropped a third of a percent?
MINISTER ROBERT:
33,800 new full-time jobs to give a national high of 8.88 million Australians in full-time work. Considering people were speaking about a cliff when JobKeeper ended, to see 33,800 full-time jobs I think is really encouraging.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Okay, but that doesn’t take away the fact that there were 30,000 jobs lost. Are you worried about those jobs? There are 30,000 people not in work.
MINISTER ROBERT:
We are worried about every job. But considering JobKeeper ended and we’re seeing this result with unemployment at 5.5 per cent, it shows that our plan is working. Now there’s a long way to go. We want to get unemployment down to a four in front of it and that’s what the budget and the skills and the apprenticeship announcements are all about.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Do you know why the 64,000 people who aren’t counted as employed have stopped looking for work altogether?
MINISTER ROBERT:
There are seasonally adjusted terms all the time in how these things move around. We saw the highest level of participation in our nation's history last month, so we’d expect it to move around a little bit. So today at 66 per cent, it’s the second highest number that we’ve seen. So we’ll always see some movement.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
How much do you attribute this result to the end of the JobKeeper program, the jobs that have been lost?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I think there’s always some swings and roundabouts in the economy. There were many commentators expecting a great fiscal cliff from the end of JobKeeper and what we’ve seen, of course, is 33,800 new jobs created. We’ve seen a drop off in part-time, but of course, last month we saw 90,000 part-time jobs increase. So there’s always going to be this movement.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Yeah, sure. There’s no doubt there’s movement, but when we're talking about, you know, this significant number of people losing their jobs, they are people that are no longer in labour market. Surely the Government laments that.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Everyone laments every single job loss. There’s no question about that. But we’ve seen almost a million jobs come back since COVID, which is something that we should be pleased with. No one is celebrating. There’s a lot of hard work to go. That’s why there’s so many billions of dollars’ worth of funds in apprenticeships, in new training, for transition to work programs so we can get Australians skilled and as many Australians into work as we can.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Minister, are you concerned by the size of the fall in the female participation rate, which is down 0.5 per cent?
MINISTER ROBERT:
[Audio skip] participation at 61.8 per cent last month was the highest it’s ever been, so we’d expect some pullback in these swings and roundabouts. We just need to continue to encourage women into the workforce, and that’s what our childcare program and policy announcements were all about – $1.7 billion to increase the capacity for a second child into childcare to free up women to work.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Sure. But, really, at the heart of my question is you want the participation rate for women to be on an upward trajectory, not to be pulling back. I mean, that is not a good indication, is it, for women?
MINISTER ROBERT:
We want all participation to raise. Wouldn't it be great if the whole nation look like Tasmania with a parti- sorry, look like Northern Territory with a participation rate in the 70s? That would be superb. But a lot younger population the Northern Territory that sees those higher participation rates.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Yeah, but the participation rate for women has been obviously a really important issue to be focusing on. Do you have any modelling about [audio skip] shift you’re going to see as a result of some of those changes you introduced in the Budget?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well Treasury says that we’ll see about $1.5 billion added to the GDP per year as a result of the changes to childcare alone, and hundreds of thousands of more hours worked because of the freedom women have got because of the second child changes. So we're looking forward to seeing those flow through once we start to implement these childcare reforms.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
But do the figures reinforce the impact of government stimulus being provided in traditionally male dominated sectors like construction?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well I’m here at Baker & Provan and where I’m standing, five minutes ago, there were two new female apprentices in fitting, which is superb. So we want to see opportunities for women right across the economy, not just in male or female dominated, but in every part of the economy.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Of course you want women working in construction but if you look at the core numbers, it is not a [audio skip] workforce, Minister, and if you’re pumping money into infrastructure, it inadvertently provides more jobs for men, right?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well there’s $18 billion for aged care, $13 billion into the NDIS. So over the next four years, that’s $31 billion into that care industry, which is predominantly a feminised workforce. So there are swings and roundabouts right the way through the Budget.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
What are your projections for an increase in female employment driven by investments in aged care and mental health?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well I suggest we’ll see a lot. We’re expecting over 100,000 new jobs over the next four years in that care sector, not just aged care, NDIS, but also in the veteran care space. Now that doesn’t necessarily have to be all women. It tends to be a feminised workforce but the opportunity is there for everyone to expand into that area.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Was Qantas's decision to announce further job cuts inevitable given the blowout in [audio skip] for opening our border?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I’ll let Qantas speak to themselves and what their rationale is, but we have obviously made decisions based on the best medical advice. We’ll continue to make those decisions on the best medical advice. We want Australians to be able to travel. We want them to travel safely.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Okay. But either way, this is a six-month delay in the reopening of our international border. It means there are job losses for people working for Qantas on the international routes. Does that concern you? And will you provide more support for that industry given those job losses?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The assumptions in the Budget show that we expect our current rates for the borders to be opened
mid next year, but the Prime Minister has also made the point we want to progressively open our borders for Australians to travel first who have been vaccinated, then international students, and then of course our wider pump population as well as skilled migration. But we’ll [audio skip] act in the best medical advice of the day, and that's what we’ll continue to do.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Sure, but- you may be acting on what you say is the best medical advice, but it has an impact on the economy, it has an impact on jobs on those international routes. Will the government explore further support for the airline industry, given the job losses we are witnessing today?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The government has continued to be providing support to sectors and we continue to make announcements when we need to in response to those sectoral changes.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Do you think there’s a case?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I’ll let the Infrastructure Minister speak to that, and that's as it should be after it has been properly considered. But every border closure has an impact, whether it is states closing borders, or whether it’s the international border because of COVID raging across the world, it’s all got an impact.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Minister, I remember at the time when the Prime Minister was pushing for the borders internally to reopen last year - and of course there was a loud noise behind you, that's what happens - but we will just park that sound. [Audio skip] was arguing, he said we can't hide under the doona forever. Are we hiding under the doona at the moment?
MINISTER ROBERT:
No, not at all. And you saw the closure of our borders to India because of the rampant rise of cases out there. So we need to act with the best medical advice and we’ll continue to do that. Now the great thing about keeping state borders open is state governments can track and trace. And New South Wales, where I am now, is an exemplar in this. And the great tracking and tracing means our state borders can stay open.
But when it comes to international, the best medical advice is yet to tell us whether- if someone is vaccinated, whether they can transmit the virus and how they manage that. And whilst that medical advice continues to roll out, we’ll continue to get more fidelity on this and continue to make decisions.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
What you make of the Victorian government's decision to fund improved mental health services through a $3 billion levy on businesses?
MINISTER ROBERT:
It’s a tax. Patricia, let’s [Audio skip] is. In the middle of a pandemic recovery, a Labor Government has decided to put a tax on it. Now the Federal Budget had enormous funds for mental funds, including establishing 40 head to health centres. And we haven’t done it by slowing the economy down by putting a tax on it. It’s just- what is it with the Labor and taxes?
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Okay, but if Victoria can prioritise a return to surplus after last year’s lockdown, why can’t you? You say I haven’t put a tax on anything, but you’ve also saddled future generations with debt.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, we’ve also been responsible for the vast bulk of the support to the Australian economy. Twice as much as the states have done, collectively. It’s the Federal Government that’s supported millions of Australians in work through JobKeeper, provided the JobSeeker basis, as well as now the stimulus and services jobs and digital through the budget.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
How concerned should Australians be about these six new cases of blood clots linked to AstraZeneca?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, again, the [Audio skip] been made that the AstraZeneca vaccine has got a rate of blood clot of between five and seven per million. The- we’ve made that very clear, ATAGI has made that very clear, and of course the Government has announced what vaccines are suitable for what ages.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Is it fair to say the growing rate of hesitancy is actually concern around the safety of the AstraZeneca vaccine?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I haven’t seen any research either way to say that’s the case or not the case. We’ll continue to roll the vaccine programme out, we’ll do it with states and territories. We’ll continue to advertise the programme and encourage Australians to go online and book their vaccine, as many are doing. We saw our biggest day a number of days ago in terms of vaccinating Australians. So Australians continue to come forward to be vaccinated, which is really pleasing.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Look, as a former minister for the NDIS, these individuals plans and independent assessments are still on the table. Yesterday, I spoke to Bruce Bonyhady the architect of the NDIS who says that this robodebt, that this is essentially replicating robodebt and there’s incredible despair. Given you’d hope you would have learnt some lessons from robodebt, why are you going to do this twice?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, clearly Patricia I completely reject what you’ve said. It’s wrong, it’s wrong on principle and it’s wrong in fact. John Walsh-
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Talks over] Well, okay. Bruce Bonyhady knows quite a bit as you know.
MINISTER ROBERT:
The father of the NDIS, John Walsh, who was the Labor appointee on the productivity commission, he was coming out saying independent assessments are a core part of the NDIS. The productivity commission recommended them. The [Indistinct] review recommended them. And independent assessments are all about getting equity in the system. If you’re in the seat of Boothby, your average plan is $95,000. If you’re in the seat of Makin, it’s $65,000. If you’re poor in the NDIS right now, [Audio skip] you are not getting as a package as if you are wealthy, and that is wrong. That’s wrong in principle and it’s wrong in fact.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Okay. Do you agree with the new Minister Linda Reynolds that there’s just too much empathy from bureaucrats?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The productivity commission, again, recommended independent assessments to deal with a perception…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Talks over] But I asked you a question. Is there too much empathy, do you think?
MINISTER ROBERT:
… to deal with a perception of empathy bias.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
What’s empathy bias?
MINISTER ROBERT:
And that’s what the productivity commission said. It said that treating physicians of individuals have a great heart for the people with disability they’re serving, and that may lead to bias. Now, these are the productivity commission’s words, not mine.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Okay, but these are people who are incredibly vulnerable. Why take the risk of replicating the errors of robodebt which your government is now paying for?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Patricia, it’s got nothing to do with robodebt. That’s a complete strawman. It’s rubbish.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
[Talks over] Well Bruce Bonyhady says it’s the same mistake. So you think Bruce Bonyhady is wong?
MINISTER ROBERT:
[Talks over] You know it’s rubbish, and I know it’s rubbish. We use independent assessments right now for [Audio skip] support pension. We use it right now for aged care assessment teams, ACAT assessments. This is simply using it in disability, and no one’s saying the DSP or ACAT is linked income compliance.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Stuart Robert, we’re out of time. Thanks for coming on the show.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Thanks Patricia.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
That’s Employment Minister, Stuart Robert.